Hi versace1888.

The key questions here are whether you actually signed a trust deed at this meeting and whether the trust deed has been advertised.

Any trust deed firm needs to see ID to satisfy money laundering regulations. That would hint that perhaps you didn't sign a trust deed, or that proper procedures have not been followed if you did.

£7000 does sound like a relatively high fee level. The firms featured on this site (and represented by Mark, Kevin, Shona and Chris in this forum) have told us that their fees typically range from £2500 to £4500 plus outlays.

However, if you have signed a trust deed there may be no easy way out of the situation. It would be legally binding on you and your trustee if that has happened.

I'd suggest checking whether it has indeed been advertised. You can do this on the Edinburgh Gazette website (if you have any trouble with this give our advice team a call and we'll do it with/for you).

Have just checked and it looks like the advert appeared on Friday 13th (another omen!) in the Edinburgh Gazette. I don't understand how this company can do this, when they told us they still needed an exact list of all the companies we owed money too, the amounts owed, copies of our I.D. and they don't even have my bank details!!! Surely this can't be right?

Someone also called me last week saying that they wouldn't be able to proceed without Life Insurance, then proceeded to try to sell me life insurance! I advised him we would arrange our own and he said that the trust deed wouldn't go ahead without life insuranceso was that another lie???

This company have totally duped ussurely there must be a way out of this??

Hi versace1888

Your post represents all that is bad, summed up perfectly in one post and to add insult to injury, they then try and sell you insurance. I bet I could guess the firm!

The position is that you have signed the Trust Deed and are therefore bound by it. If it was me, I would advise your trustee that in your opinion they have failed to follow process and will be making a formal complaint unless they discharge themselves.

Mark

If you have signed the trust deed then they are supposed to advertise it in the Edinburgh Gazette as soon as is practicable afterwards. The fact that they have not yet got all of the information they will need from you does not really make a difference to this I'm afraid.

Did you ask them about the level of their fees before signing? If not, then I'm not really sure that it could be said that they have "duped" you. If your creditors agree to the level of their fees (not a foregone conclusion) then it actually has no effect on you - it just means that your creditors will get a lower dividend.

Having said that, it does seem that they have not given you nearly enough time and information to make a fully informed decision, and the bit about life insurance is completely out of order - you have no obligation to purchase life insurance as part of this. Overall altogether more interested in the "sale" rather than the service.

The problem is that once you have signed a trust deed then it is a legally-binding document. You can choose not to comply, in which case the trustee may effectively terminate the trust deed by seeking their own discharge. However, they do not have to go down this route and it is possible that they could decide to play "hard-ball" and seek to enforce the trust deed contributions somehow. Or alternatively they could apply for you to be sequestrated instead.

I would be surprised if they decided to do this however as it would just mean them incurring extra cost in the short term. My bet would be that they would just end the trust deed and release you with your debts intact - but there are no guarantees and there are risks attached if you insist that you are not willing to comply.

Okay, have just spoken to the company. They said that they have decided to close the case. They aren't admitting blame for much but are saying that we now owe them money for costs they have incurred for a property desktop survey, paper advertising and staff costs, around £1,100 was all they could tell me, couldn't confirm an exact cost. So they are saying they will be billing us for that.

I've asked her how they expect us to pay when we clearly have money worries already and she said that if we are entering into a new plan then we will need to pay them back through the trust deed or debt management plan, whatever option we choose.

Feel glad that they are closing it but now worrying about how we even begin to pay them back ÔÇô this is yet another debt we now owe apparently!! £1,100 that has appeared from nowhere!!

When we first spoke to their rep we were told that the monthly fee from them was £40. We were also told that the trust deed would be over 3 years, yet when the paperwork came out they had it listed as being over 4 years! It's just been one thing after another and now they are adamant we have this bill to pay!!!

£1100! The desktop survey and gazette advert would amount to about £100 probably, so their staff costs are pretty astronomical!

I think Mark's suggestion of threatening a formal complaint might be a good one.

Hi versace1888

Delighted it has worked out. Once discharged, this will give you the opportunity to start again with a decent firm as you need to be aware of all those real debt experts out there, who conduct business in the manner you describe which is shocking.

As for their fee/bill, this will form a claim in any future Trust Deed and I'm sure it would be a delight for any decent IP firm to take this apart piece by piece and get them to justify it.

Mark

Hi Versace 1888

Not going to cover old ground other than to confirm Mark's thoughts above that if you commence the process again after discharge (which really should not be prolonged) then chose wisely from the Insolvency Profession rather than someone who is going to give a hard sell. I do not think anyone can confirm from the above notes whether a Trust Deed was really the right option in the first place and it would be good for you to sit down with a suitably qualified person to discuss all the options available from Sequestration - Trust Deeds - Debt Arrangement Scheme.

Agree Mark - if you go down the route of Trust Deed regarding the bill/fee. All those on this site would have a time system that identifies the time on the case and how that equates to the fees - one would hope that the firm you dealt with have a smilar procedure to back up their Fee request/claim in the Trust Deed.

Hi Chris

It's an interesting one. I assume they used an Agent for the 1st part and it would be an interesting exercise to see how they record that as an outlay or a time fee!

Mark

Disgrace that someone has been treated this way and to prevent the same happening to others it must be worthwhile naming these cowboys.

I used RSM tenon for my trust deed and they have been professional throughout,and gave us time to mull over all our options without any pressure to sign anything or hand over any bank details at a 1st meeting.

Paul

I would suggest getting in touch with one of the experts on here and let them take apart the expenses. I'm sure they'd have a field day.

I wouldnt threaten a formal complaint I would proceed with one,companies like this are damaging the industry but worst off can ruin peoples lives(when they are already struggling!!!). Frying pan and into the fire springs to mind!!!

Paul

Thanks for everyone's support. I really hope we can get this whole mess sorted, I really grudge having to pay them a penny. I would definitely keen to speak to a reputable company if any of the advisers on here would be able to help us?

Hi versace1888.

Any of the advisers that post on the site would be happy to talk things through with you. If that's what you'd like to do there are contact forms for each of them available via the "buttons" in their forum signatures.

I'm sure you'll be able to get all of this sorted out soon enough.