Hi candlewick

The problem with the request would be the information the AIB hold. There is a statutory obligation to provide certain documentation, however this does not include the original proposal to creditors or the wage document referred to earlier in the post. It does however include a copy of the statement of affairs and the information on this document re the heritable property is key.

Mark

Hi thanks for replys . I have my statement of affairs and the one sent to creditors neither include the house as the manager admitted it was left out of my trust deed to make me insolvent.
This wages form he sent makes no sense as the inserted page starts at j and has nothing to do with the form.
The manager tried to bring up the heritable property and soon dropped that when he went over my paperwork. He was more interested In trying to get me to complain.
The facts are the property was left out and nil equity put in so I would sign. Also to make me insolvent.
Their is nothing in the paperwork regarding the house. The first I heard of it was a year later before a new company was taking over. I phoned as I was furious and he said it was fine he would just want 500 at the end then I heard nothing till four months ago.
His last letter said in his opinion the house is an assett. In the meantime they phoned and asked if I would put in writing I was happy to extend my trust deed by two years,you can imagine my reply, they dropped that proposal straight away.
That is it really .Now I have told them there not getting anything as they refused an offer of 1'500
Also the manager didn't even know if the creditors were aware of the property.
Not once has my trustee phoned to discuss this I wonder why.

Hi received a letter today from my trustee , he states the property from the estimated statement of affairs to make me insolvent is untrue. While if it had been included in the estimated statement of affairs it would show that my assets exceeded my liabilities.!!
This however is only one test of apparent insolvency. The other is that I was unable to pay my debts as they fell due.
There were some administrative errors with regard to the property but these do not negate your responsibilities under my trust deed.However the position remains that I have a one third interest in the property.
I will accept 3,000 as full and final settlement to settle the issue. This will bring your trust deed to a close and get on with my life.This offer will remain open for seven days from the date of this letter. Thereafter the creditors and his institute would expect him to pursue the asset. The case will be passed on to law agents who will petition for my sequestration and raise a division and sale this will last one year but as I'm making a contribution it will extend to three years .
Sorry it's long . What do you think thanks?

Hi debs

My advice to the trustee is that old classic. When in a hole, stop digging!

There are a few things which make no sense;

1. Using the 'apparently insolvent' argument for a trust deed.

2. Describing the failure to disclose assets as an 'administrative error'

3. Advising that the Trust Deed was the best option while aware of the property.

4. Threatening sequestration ( on what grounds?)

5. Throwing in the Action of Division & Sale threat.

6. Agreeing £3k for your 3rd interest in the property with no creditor agreement or justifiable formula.

The decision will always be up to you, however I would love to see this in front of a sheriff. I think the whole sorry episode needs to be investigated by the Trustees governing body.

Mark

Hi debs.

If I were you I'd be furious. There seem to be all sorts of personal interests and principles at stake.

You must remember that challenging this all of the way isn't without risks to you though. Conceivably big risks.

You have an alternative which would bring the whole matter to an end, no matter how unfair and/or plain wrong it seems. At least it would be over.

I'm not trying to put you off any course of action or point you towards any course of action. The difficulty is, no matter what the comments of the knowledgeable people that post here have been, the consequences of any decision that you make will only be yours to enjoy or suffer.

I'd suggest that any final decisions are guided by taking good personal legal advice from someone that's experienced and qualified in insolvency law. There's quite a lot at stake for you, but also it seems possibly for your trustee as well.

I would certainly echo Trust Deed Assistant's words, debs. It is a terrible situation you have been put in and I would hate for it to become even worse. Specialist legal advice would be a must before making any decisions I'd say.

Hi guys,thanks for all your replays. Regarding sequestration how would he go about this as I have nearly completed trust deed and I'm classed as solvent.

Hi debs

He would require to lodge a petition and convince the Sheriff it was appropriate to award sequestration. From the information provided, I think the chances of this are slim.

Also there is no need to petition for sequestration as the Trustee under a Trust Deed has the same powers of division and sale as those in a sequestration. Personally i think it stinks of the Trustee composing a letter with as many big threatening words you can find!

Mark

Thanks Mark I don't know if he's bluffing or he would do this. I'm also worried the effect it would have on my parents. This man seems arrogant beyond belief . Why would he do all that for 3,000 or would he be going for the sale of the house I'm totally confused as his letter doesn't even make sense. He wants to know by Monday.
My mum and dad have said they will pay the three thousand and I will also be contacting the ICA.

It's hard to find the words... (Well, words that would pass a swear filter!)

You've been put in a horrible situation, debs. I agree that specialist legal advice would be a good idea.

I'd also tend to split the situation up into two parts. The first - and most important part - how do you keep your parent's home safe. That might mean paying the £3,000, and biding your time till you get your Form 5.

The second part would be making a formal complaint. I'd be inclined to use the period when you're "biding your time till you get your Form 5" to gather all the evidence that you can, to support your complaint. For me, that would include making a Subject Access Request to AiB.

I take Mark's point that the request might not bring out any paperwork that you don't already have. But, it might. The only way to know for sure is to see what paperwork AiB hold.

Making a Subject Access Request isn't difficult - put it in writing (I think AiB have a very basic form to fill in), provide photocopies of a couple of bits of ID, wait for 40 days - maybe less, if you're lucky - and see what comes out of it.

If there's nothing new in the paperwork they send you, then you can use it as kindling for a Guy Fawkes night bonfire [;)] You won't have lost anything by making the request.

If there's something new in there - especially if it's something which suggests that the Trustee gave incorrect information to AiB as well as to your creditors and to you, then that can be put into the complaint.

I'd gather the evidence while waiting for the Form 5, but only put in the complaints once I'd received it, and it had been registerd on the Register of Insolvencies. Then Id would put in a formal complaint to the Trustee's company, his professional body, and the AiB.

All that said, I completely agree with TDA's point that - at the end of the day - we can tell you what we would do. You are the person who is actually living this horrific situation. So, you have to do what is right for you.

Hopefully, this thread has given you a better idea of the things you could do. You know better than anyone which is the right choice for you.

I wish you all the best, and I'm so sorry that you have been put in this position in the first place.

Thanks Candlewick, what you said is what I discussed with my dad earlier. I would wait to be discharged before doing anything. I have a feeling I will get my form 5 in record time as he wants rid of me asap.
In the end I can't put my parents property at risk even though I would like to call his bluff and he knows this . I will definitely be taking it further though especially having evidence where he's lied and Made paperwork up . I'm just so angry that he's being allowed to do this. I hope the creditors get this three thousand as I wouldn't put anything pass this man.

Hi debs

Whatever you decide to do, I think this matter needs to be investigated and you should refer matters to their governing body.

What a hellish position to be in.

Mark

Hi Mark spoke to someone at the advice centre today who has been helping me and i also spoke with an insolvency practitioner . Both of them think I have a really strong case it's just that chance it goes to a sheriff and doesn't go in my favour .Also neither of them think the creditors are aware of the property. It's tempting to see it through as I would get the chance to put my case forward if he goes to sequestration.
But on the other hand he knows I wouldn't put my parents property at risk as this goes right back to the start of the trust deed .
I have a third party who will pay the three thousand which is the option I think I have to take.
I'm not happy doing this as I feel he shouldn't be getting anything and he's caused so much stress for me and my parents. I also think he's bluffing and would not want all this negative publicity, I just don't think I can take the risk. I will definitely be putting a complaint in as this needs investigating even if it just stops him doing this again to someone else.

Hi guys quick update. I made an offer of three thousand to the trustee from my parents even though my dad's happy to go all the way to court. Received a letter back from trustee stating as I can't raise 6,400 I have made an offer of 3,000 if this is not accepted I will go for sequestration and he will contact me in two weeks time when he has heard from the creditors. Is this letter normal it's the first one that's made any sense.Also a complaint is getting put in once I have paid the last payment. I also wanted to say thanks for all your help and advice [:)]

Hi debs

He will be seeking the creditors approval on the £3k. Pretty normal.

I'm glad you are continuing with the complaint as I have no doubt there will be others in the same boat. It has been quite a journey for you and I hope it all works out.

Keep us posted on how things progress with both the offer and the complaint.

Mark