Good points, well made Firewalker.

In fact, if you take out the last two sentences and add in the question "So what are you going to do about it?" (or something along those lines!) you could turn your post into a letter to the Edinburgh Gazette, the AiB, and your MSP.

It would be interesting to see how they'd answer.

Thanks Candlewick.

I have written to the Gazette and the ICO for their feedback.

The Gazette were very disinterested and unhelpful with the google search link and the Romanian website. I have asked them the appeal hierarchy to conclusion if they are not able to act on my request.

Your point about the MSP is good. I had not thought of that. I also had not considered including the AIB. I thought that was a completely different organisation, however, I will now do that. Let's see the different responses I receive. Will keep you up to date. This will also affect many of the Forum members.

Thanks.

Given your success with the Google issue, I look forward to another positive result at the end of this too!

If only I shared the same level of optimism Kevin!
Looks like this might require a change in legislation.

Ironically, to fight the cause outwith the AIB, ICO and Gazette, would actually probably propel my name and details into another arena, potentially causing the very exposure I am trying to prevent.

Anyway, we will see how it goes.

Does anyone know when the legislation was changed so that Trust Deeds no longer had to be recorded in the Gazette?

Thanks.

Wasn't it last year when the minimum term for a TD went up to 4 years?

Hi Upstream

I have two main dates. AIB site states the following - although refers to Bankruptcies and not specifically Trust Deeds in that.

From 15 November 2010, the trustee will not be required to advertise a notice in respect of a Bankruptcy in the Edinburgh Gazette.

And AIB also states from 28th November 2013........
Removal of the requirement to advertise the trust deed in the Edinburgh Gazette, instead publishing the notice on the Register of Insolvencies.

I just wondered if the first date only applied to Bankruptcies and the Trust Deeds were later included. I thought maybe some of the Trustees here would know.

I think you're right Firewalker.

So people who went bankrupt before 15 November 2010 will have their names in the Edinburgh Gazette for ever but people who went bankrupt after that will eventually see their names drop off the Register of Insolvencies.

The same situation really - but it has been happening for a lot longer. I wonder if anyone has ever challenged this before.

Do any of the experts know "where it is written" that the notice in the Edinburgh Gazette will be there for ever? I can see that in the olden days when the Gazette was published on paper there would be no easy way to destroy all the copies. The internet age is very different in that sense.

Hi Candlewick

The Gazette states it is a matter of public record and is permanent.
they refer to the Insolvency Act (6.46 in particular).

This is the Gazette's Policy on this matter.......
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/privacy
If this link is not acceptable on the forum and is removed, look up 'thegazette' website and privacy policy. Half way down deals with removal of the record. interestingly it also states that you can ask to have the record updated.

I have questioned how this applies to Trust Deeds, and being fair and equitable to more recent cases, and what steps were taken to address the records before the change.

I found some interesting documents today including the Scottish government paper on Improving Trust Deeds and the process of review with the working group to reach the recent changes. One section comments on the view that publishing the record in the Gazette for personal insolvency is considered counter productive (or similar wording) and so it was recommended that the requirement be removed, as it has been.

One of the documents uses the wording (no longer required to record in the Gazette) 'for records after (date)', and makes no reference to or gives instructions about those who have gone before, indicating no consideration was given or no action would be taken to backdate the change and remove current listings.

I have feedback from the ICO that they cannot deal with the matter since matters of public record like the Gazette are exempt from the Data Protection Act. (paraphrased here); and that makes sense in the context of the rest of the information I have seen - so far. However, depending on how this process unfolds, they may have an input later on.

The AIB have not replied yet. They also did not answer the telephone and their website is not fully functional. The ICO could not get the website to function properly either today. Perhaps they are still eating Easter eggs [:)].

The Gazette replied. I researched a bit and responded for more clarification, and it has now been escalated for more senior advice.

In the deep recesses of my mind, from what I have read so far, this seems to be potentially an amendment to the amendments, via the Scottish government. Unless the AIB's stronger powers extends to instructing / influencing the Gazette to remove the records in some way or another. Sounds like a legislative situation.

Now having written all this, I realise the experts on here will already know all of this and could have replied with better detail [:D][:I].

Curiouser and curiouser.

The Gazette link seems very England, Wales and Northern Ireland-centric.

Do they have a "where it is written" explanation for Scotland?

I think that the AiB were closed for the full Easter weekend. So they wouldn't have seen any messages until Tuesday. Maybe give them a couple of days and then chase it up?

I think you're doing a great job with your investigations. Maybe the TD experts knew all of this stuff already, but I know I'm finding it's a real eye-opener!

A good point, Candlewick.

Given the different legal system in Scotland, any arguments based on English legislation, ie the Insolvency Act, wouldn't necessarily hold water. The fact that Scottish cases were notified in the Edinburgh Gazette, rather than the London or Belfast Gazettes, may also help in terms of coming at it from a purely Scottish angle too.

Here are the documents I referred to. I could not find the links last night..... I hope it is okay to use these links since it is not advertising anything or criticizing anyone - they are only a reference to documents.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2011/10/14103349/3

Note sections 4.7, 4.8, 4.9 and 4.10 in particular.
Later in the document, it states that (most) recommendations were applied.

http://www.aib.gov.uk/guidance/legislation/legislation-after-1-april-2008/important-changes-law-bankruptcy-and-trust-deeds

Refers to Trust Deeds in the URL, but the wording says ....

Edinburgh Gazette
From 15 November 2010, the trustee will not be required to advertise a notice in respect of a Bankruptcy in the Edinburgh Gazette.

As you say, not Scotland-centric, although the Scottish Government are responsible for the first paper. Could that indicate that the paper is being interpreted/applied by more UK based organisations? Just a thought.

You've lost me a little there to be honest, Firewalker. The 2 links are very much Scotland-centric - they are referring specifically to Protected Trust Deeds and Sequestrations, which are Scottish procedures only.

Basically, the requirement to put a notice in the Edinburgh Gazette has been removed for both procedures now, though it was changed first for sequestrations. However, the changes were not retrospective, so it might be difficult to argue that the entries in the Gazette for older cases should be removed.

Having said that, if the Gazette are talking about the Insolvency Act as their justification, then they are referring to legislation that is not applicable to the Scottish personal insolvency regime. I'm not sure that it is written anywhere in Scottish legislation that the entries in the Edinburgh Gazette should be permanently available, though may well be wrong!

I wonder if there would have to be political influence for anything to change here?

Presumably the Gazette and AIB were just following the law as it was at the time and now have no mandate to retrospectively change that position?

For me, I think I'd be wanting to make this case to a sympathetic MSP.