Hi manatbushk

I know it doesn't help, but matters concerning contributions, equity etc should all be fully discussed and confirmed in writing before doing anything.

It would appear that the Trustee is now seeking the equity to be paid and could force the sale of the property.

Mark

Hi Folks,

I regularly read the forum and if I had a pound for every time I've heard "get things in writing"
What I dont undestand is why dont trust deed companies and their representatives actively do this for clients as a matter of course?
I'd like to think they dont fail to do this so as to give them added flexibility later in the life of the TD.
In reality to expect vulnerable often confused folk to ask for all the finer details in writing is I think wishful thinking!

Ralph

Hi Ralph

The onus should be on the IP companies to do this. The biggest problem is the middlemen companies who will tell people anything to get a sale. That said, the IP has a duty to ensure people are fully aware of all matters and indeed all options available before they sign anything.

I have built my business on this basis and to date have had no issues with equity or bonuses etc. A very straightforward principal that keeps everyone in control.

Mark

Hi Ralph.

You make an excellent point.

It is understood within the industry that some people who are looking to deal with their debts are extremely worried and/or stressed and therefore proceed with a trust deed (or other debt solutions) without being as thoughtful or reflective as they might be with other major decisions or purchases.

That certainly puts an extra obligation (in my book) on those that provide the help and services to be doubly sure that anyone they work with fully understands not only the benefits but also the risks of the choice that they are making. To be fair, most trust deed providers and advisers do the right thing in this respect.

As with any industry however there seem to be a minority of rogues; often "advisers" (frequently at intermediaries rather than the actual insolvency companies) who will say or do pretty much anything to persuade someone to go ahead with a trust deed. At one level this might be to only talk about the benefits of a trust deed without taking the same time to explain the drawbacks (all debt solutions have both). At another level it can involve being deliberately untruthful.

Where this often seems to go wrong is where an intermediary of some type runs through everything with their client before referring the individual to a trust deed provider. The client asks questions of the intermediary and satisfies him or herself that a trust deed makes sense for them based upon the answers. Having become comfortable with the idea, the individual then fails to ask the same questions of the Trustee (which I can understand is totally natural) and then is horrified to find out much later on that the information they were originally given is wrong. At that point (after the trust deed has been signed) there is little that can be done to rectify the situation as all parties to the trust deed are now legally committed and have obligations as a result.

There is one firm of intermediaries who are currently telling their potential clients not to worry about their homes because they'll organise for the home to be under-valued so that no equity exists. I'll not name them, but we've taken many many calls regarding this in the last few weeks. I think it's easy to see how horribly wrong this may go for some people in three years time when their trust deeds are, they think, coming to an end.

As you say, it is asking too much that everyone going ahead with a trust deed goes through the whole complicated procedure in detail and gets everything in writing in advance of signing the trust deed. I agree that it will not happen. However this site will continue to promote the idea that people should do that in order that they protect themselves and make the best decisions to deal with their debts.

There's a massive obligation on any debt adviser or Trustee to make sure their client understands the ramifications of their decisions. There is also however a powerful case for anyone signing a trust deed to do what they can to make sure that they fully understand the commitment that they are making and have some kind of written confirmation. Whatever happens, it will be that individual who faces the consequences (usually beneficial but sometimes as we see not) of their decision.

None of this post is in any way intended to read as being critical of manatbushk or any other member who has found themselves in a tough spot. I do think the main responsibility in this area is with the trust deed providers themselves.

Thanks Mark and TDA,

A really comprehensive response much appreciated.

I fully understand that most debt advisers/trustees do try and make sure clients understand what they are committing to, would it not be appropriate to have a standard document other than the TD proposal to creditors. Paperwork that highlights all the possible areas where there could be confusion down the line? eg, equity in house, car, bonuses, amount expected on completion from creditors etc.

Many issues just seems to be dealt with in such an adhoc basis by some in your industry to the detriment of people who have given the hardest thing to people they dont really know,their trust.

Good luck manatbushk, hope you get sorted out.

Ralph

Hi Ralph.

That type of document could only ever discuss the principles around how things might be dealt with. The reason for that is that there are so many unique situations that arise in which judgment has to be exercised by a Trustee rather than them following a pre-set procedure. I can see how that might be viewed as being "ad hoc" but I'm not really sure what the answer is other than a potential client being clear how their unique circumstances will be dealt with in their trust deed (on a client by client basis).