Don't worry TDA, I don't believe your post is in anyway rude, maybe frustrations from both sides of the argument are being brought into the open? Maybe someone in a position to makes changes or proposals to the way trust deeds are handled, will read message boards, such as these and note some of the valuable points being brought up? And try to incorporate them into future trust deed contracts to avoid such anger/ frustration. all I have ever asked for, is for it to be written in law , how these payments are treated, is this to much to ask for? Considering we are now 4/5 years into PPI reparations to customers ? I have trouble in believing companies saying this was unforeseen, I informed my former trustee on 3 separate occasions that PPI was involved in my loans and THEY didn't take any action. It was only when I claimed on my own initiative and they became aware of PPI payment, did they act. U tell me who is right? Morally me legally them? I don't have the answer, do u?

When would a breakdown of where the money is going be exhibited? Before an application to be re - appointed?

With respect TDA how can you say the trustee involvement is irrelevant? Who is driving this wave of applications to the court?

Tinsoldier - Trustees who feel legally and/or professionally obligated to do so. So it comes back to the law. And their regulators. They're doing what they think is right. You're arguing for the opposite.

Bert - I genuinely can't answer your questions. There are strong moral and legal arguments that would swing firmly behind both positions I think. And these contrary positions can't be reconciled by anything other than a legal process as far as I can see.

And that, everybody, is my last contribution to this thread until the next significant event (probably a court case) has actually happened.

Can someone else involved in the trust deed industry answer the question about when a breakdown of costs is exhibited? Kevin, David?

Hi tinsoldier,

The Trustee will take into account the estimated costs of applying to court prior to doing so to be able to justify that there are sufficient funds to do it. I don't think you would receive a breakdown prior to this. You could ask for one.

What kind of breakdown would you be looking for? I think the calculation could be as simple as £20,000 potential PPI funds, legal costs of applying to court £1,500, administration costs and disbursement costs of X and this could return an increased dividend of 25p, 50p, 75p or close to 100p in the £ to creditors.

Ultimately any fee which a Trustee takes from a case must be justified for the level of work they have done and stand up to scrutiny by you, the creditors and the Accountant in Bankruptcy. Their fees can be audited by the Accountant in Bankruptcy who have the power to restrict their fee.

At the end of the Trust Deed you along with the creditors will receive a final breakdown of where all of the funds have went. There will and should be full transparency.

It comes down to a legal argument before a sheriff. People I have spoken with do not feel that all of the factors and relevant legislation/law were taken into consideration by the sheriff making the order. On this basis there it may be appealed.

It's difficult for us to comment further on what's going to happen. We are following this whole scenario with interest but as I said at the moment we are not a firm who are considering applying to reopen a Trust Deed. If however in the future our regulatory body issue guidance that we need to consider this then out view may change.

As with TDA I'm not sure what more I can contribute and I fear going round in circles on this until further significant progress is made at court with the active cases.

Just to back up what David has said, any work a trustee does, or payments they have to make, will be kept account of as it happens and then a breakdown provided when advising creditors of their further dividend.

The firm I work for, Grant Thornton, is also not currently applying to re-open Trust Deeds, in light of this legal decision. Of course, I can't speak for any others.

Were Grant Thornton re-applying before the court case Kevin ?

Not to my knowledge.

Cheers Kevin.

Really trying to establish whether this legal decision has influenced the way firms are thinking towards applying for re-appointment.

Sweep, sweep.

I've organised for tinsoldier to take a mini-break from the forum.

Debate and disagreement is welcome here. In fact it's encouraged here.

However - rudeness and antagonism isn't welcome.

I'm also organising for tinsoldier to be very welcome here again in a week. Makes good points, definitely has a case, and is making a passionate stand for what they believe in. All of which adds a great deal to the forum.

Just don't see why folks who voluntarily give their working time, their evening time, and their weekend time trying to help people and/or share a different but relevant view, should put up with rudeness and antagonism in return.

Hi TDA,

I can see why you have taken this step and I can also understand how this whole PPI saga for tinsoldier has perhaps caused frustrations to boil over. Sometimes a little time away can provide a chance to review and reflect.

Hopefully tinsoldier returns next week after the break to continue contributing in a positive way to the forum.

Can someone (!) please clarify:-

I was discharged from a TD 2 years ago. Toward the mid-latter part of the TD the Trustee was pursuing PPI claims to which a number of banks paid out.

Fast forward to now and lo and behold in the last couple of months there have been 3 separate, further payments!:- 2 payments from banks directly to me and the 3rd has gone to the (former) Trustee (??).

In light of the mentioned case and the fact that I was discharged in early 2014 (2 years ago) should I be contacting my former Trustee asking them to return that 3rd payout (cheque) to the paying bank or paying me? I also wonder if there may have been other payouts to them directly after the TD ended (i.e. later in 2014 and last year 2015). Should I be investigating these?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Hi The Principal and welcome to the forum,

At the moment the whole issue of PPI is a very contentious one.

Do you know if your Trustee has been discharged from the Trust Deed? You can check this if you don't know by looking at the Register of Insolvencies which can be found on the Accountant in Bankruptcy website.

If your Trustee is still in office and dealing with your case then I suspect this is because of on-going investigations into PPI. If this is the case then the Trustee can ask for the funds.

If your Trustee has been discharged then this is another story - Up until the last 6-9 months I would have said that if a Trustee was discharged from a Trust Deed and that person (the debtor) received a PPI payment then the Trustee could not do anything about this and it was the persons to keep.

In the last 6 months some Trustees have applied to court to try and be reappointed in a Trust Deed to ingather the money and in turn pay this out to the creditors to increase their return.

Is this correct? A Sheriff recently made a ruling to say that the Trustee couldn't. This is in the process of being challenged from what I understand.

A quick call to your Trustee to ask them about it funds that you understand they received and to ask what they are going to be doing with them will clarify the position. If my firm handled your case (for example) then I would be telling you the money is yours to keep and we are not interested.

Once you have spoken to your former Trustee please let us know.

David,

Thank you for your reply.

I have checked my letter from the Trustee and it clearly states both them and me were discharged back then. I have also double checked the AIB ROI and there is nothing on there.

Just to clarify:-

I am assuming it is my (legal?) right to know what (all, if any other) PPI payments they have directly received after discharge?

And as the present (pending appeal) law stands those funds should be paid to me?(Obviously if the decision is overturned and the appeal is successful I am then liable to pay the Trustee). But surely the Trustee cannot retain those payments as the appeal process could last a long time and under a current court ruling they are not legally entitled to do so?

I will contact the Trustee but your thoughts on the above would be appreciated.