Fees are not normally an issue in the majority of cases, however you are in a position where money may be returned and this is diminishing daily.
On this basis i would dig my heels in.

Mark

Morning all.

I received replies from my account manager yesterday afternoon saying that they will write to creditors as asked with an offer of composition (is that the right word) which would offer 100p/£ and no interest.

They have also asked if I still require copies of the trustee's annual reports. I assume these would include a breakdown of their fees.

I thanked them for their speedy reply and told them I did want the reports..

Tony

Good stuff tonyd.

Please let us know how everything develops from here.

Hi tonyd

Good to see things are progressing (hopefully)

It would also be interesting to see how they deal with the offer of composition as it's unusual in Trust Deeds, however it is normally clearly stated on the Trust deed document.

Mark

????????

Afternoon.

My feeling of shock regarding fees has returned....

As well as the e-mails from them mentioned above I have also received a letter from them with a distribution schedule. This letter was sent on the 24th july so does not include the information regarding asking the creditors to accept 100p/£ and no interest so I am aware that could change.

The shock once again is that while just over £3000 has come off the legal fees ( which I assume is the return of vat) two trustee fees have been added..
One is that the firms costs and outlays for the period 10/11/2012 to 18/07/2013 is £ 3,176.25.. 9.79 hours at an average rate of £324.44 per hour. Worse than that even, on the abstract of receipts and payments included with the letter trustee fees for this same period are shown as £ 10,837.11.

Giving me a grand total trustee fee of £ 23,864.54!!!!!

Don't really know what to say at the minute.

Tony

Wow!!!!

Hi tonyd

I've ran businesses in insolvency situations and even trading and complex cases have not had figures anywhere close to that.

Remember you can always have the fees audited.

Mark

Talking of fees, had sight of 3 lots of trust deed paperwork from the same firm with the strangest fee amounts. £5,648, £6,476 & £5,439. Then I figured out that using these figures got you to the point where a minimal dividend of 10.1p was being paid. Surprised that creditors representatives have not raised this, whereby you start with the dividend amount and work your way up to what you can get away with.

Mark

hi mark. Was wondering if that was what was happening here. Creditors getting 100p/£ plus interest ( or hopefully from my point not plus interest ) so they wont be bothered what fees are charged and wont dispute them.

I have asked for copies of the trustee's annual reports. Will make interesting reading if I can understand them. Tony

Hi Mark.

What would be the implications of me asking for the fees to be audited by the A in B?
I assume that if the creditors agree not to take interest then the cost of auditing would come out of any remaining fund which were due to come back to me. So effectively I would be paying for it?

How much does this cost? My trustee makes it sound expensive by saying it isn't done unless asked for by creditors because of the cost.

Hope I have made this clear....

Tony

Hi tonyd.

I don't believe that there's any cost to you in asking the AIB to audit the fees charged (from the AIB).

It would be ironic in the extreme if the trustee were to charge further time costs for complying with the AIB's requests in this respect.

I wonder why your trustee is trying to put you off?

Hi.

The specific wording on the circular read.

" The terms of the trust deed, a copy of which was sent to all known creditors, provide for the accounts of the transactions and intromissions of the Trustee being audited and the amount of the Trustee's remuneration being fixed by the committee of creditors. However, where there is no committee, as in this case, the Trustee may have his accounts audited and the amount of his remuneration fixed by the Accountant in Bankruptcy, providing that where the Trustee decides not to do so, he shall notify the creditors of the amount of his proposed remuneration. In view of the costs involved in auditing the account it is not my intention to refer this matter to the Accountant in Bankruptcy. "

It also says creditors have the right to insist the accounts be audited by the Accountant in Bankruptcy but says nothing about me being able to.

If I do decide to go for the A in B to audit how do I go about this. Do I simply send an e-mail to the trustee telling them I wish the accounts to be audited?
Is there a time limit to when this has to be asked for by? The letter seems to be saying 14 days from date of the letter which was dated 24th July, sent second class and arrived here yesterday.( 1st August)

You would have thought that they could have at least used first class post after charging over £23,000!!!

Tony

You can ask for an audit to be done, but I'm not sure if you go directly to AiB, or if you ask the trustee and he has to refer the request on. One of the experts can probably help out with that point.

The AiB's audit fee will come out of the trust deed pot. It is
apparently -

"5% of the sum remaining on deduction from the sum of outlays and remuneration determined of any outlays incurred by way of statutory fees, trading expenses or expenses of realisation."

I THINK that means that - even if some of the outlays are discounted - the audit fee will still be 5% of around £20,000.

And that would come out of the money you might have got back - not out of the amount which the trustee has earmarked for his fees, or the amount which is going to creditors...

It's a horrible situation for you to be in [:(]

Hi tonyd

Speak with the AIB and explain the position. They can audit the fees.

Personally I've never seen a fee at that amount or even half that amount and even quarter of that amount is rare.

Mark